Ryan Wilson: Vermette Not A Suitable Replacement For Cullen Vermette Not A Suitable Replacement For Cullen

But Rinosaur says Vermette is a low risk-high reward signing.

If the NHL were still participating in the Olympics, woulda been interesting to see if some Russian hockey players had gotten banned for this year

too many words, could have just summerized this blog with a hero comparison chart

Malkin gets it.

I agree whole heartedly with the Eric Fehr conclusion. Eric Fehr is a much better 4C option than Varment. I actually hope that our fourth line ends up being Wilson-Fehr-Kuhnhackl.

Geno for President.

I was the first one to bring up Vermette around here yesterday...I still think I'd rather him than Sundqvist as 4C...but RW did make a point I never even thought of and that's the move to get Wilson in the lineup. I keep forgetting about Wilson. He was starting to look really good, arguably the best out of WB crew, before he went down with the injury.

Vermette wil now sign with someone and will perform surprisingly well. Not because I like the guy or anything, but because, RW and charts say not to.

#spitedriven

Too bad there are not more true good humans in this world We would be a whole lot better if so. Not mentioning a certain Demo running for president. Horrible human

Too bad there are not more true good humans in this world We would be a whole lot better if so. Not mentioning a certain Demo running for president. Horrible human
- holeinone

LOL at Trump responding about how he made sacrifices

Too bad there are not more true good humans in this world We would be a whole lot better if so. Not mentioning a certain Demo running for president. Horrible human
- holeinone

Great post. Well thought out and on topic.

But Rinosaur says Vermette is a low risk-high reward signing.
- Feds91Stammer

And you accused me of trolling? Pot meet kettle.

I still stand by what I said, but he's also not necessary for the Pens; they have Fehr and a promising young player in Sundqvist. I don't even think the Pens need Cullen at this point, so yeah...

I also think that Hero chart is biased. AZ has largely played him in as a 1st or 2nd C and he's clearly not a 1st or 2nd C, so his HERO numbers SHOULD be bad.

The one problem with advanced stats is that they can be taken out of context and that's what's happening now. Paying Vermette $1M to a be a team's 4thC is a Cullen type situation. How many 4th line centers can you pay $1M and expect 30+ points?

Again, the Pens have a better player in Fehr, so they don't need him.

Is it me or should the chart probably show Cullen vs. Vermette not Vermette vs. Vermette????

Is it me or should the chart probably show Cullen vs. Vermette not Vermette vs. Vermette????
- stowerkraut

Well he was attempting to show the difference between two different years and if you read the fine print, it shows him in a 1st C role and a 2nd C role.

Vermette has always been a 3C, and maybe a borderline 2nd C earlier in his career. When you take a 3C and play him in a 1st C role, you're going to get the results you see in those HERO charts. Plus, when you take an aging player who's now more of a 3C/4C and play him in a 2nd C role, you're going to get those results you see.

As we've seen with Daley and Schultz, player usage is HUGE.

EDIT: Plus, comparing Cullen and Vermette's HERO charts would be inaccurate considering their roles and usage.

Well he was attempting to show the difference between two different years and if you read the fine print, it shows him in a 1st C role and a 2nd C role.

Vermette has always been a 3C, and maybe a borderline 2nd C earlier in his career. When you take a 3C and play him in a 1st C role, you're going to get the results you see in those HERO charts. Plus, when you take an aging player who's now more of a 3C/4C and play him in a 2nd C role, you're going to get those results you see.

As we've seen with Daley and Schultz, player usage is HUGE.

EDIT: Plus, comparing Cullen and Vermette's HERO charts would be inaccurate considering their roles and usage.
- Rinosaur

I think Daily and Schultz are also products of a more conducive system to fit their abilities. I haven't watched vemette play in a while. Or, atleast haven't paid attention. Can he still skate well?

Vermette > Sundqvist and it's not even close, at least if the goal is to have four dangerous lines. The guy put up 17 goals last year on an awful team. If Cullen's not coming back, Vermette would be a smart pickup on the cheap.

This time last year the analytical community was shouting from the rooftops that Trevor Daley sucked because of his underlying stats.

And finally, underlying stats are utterly meaningless when you're talking about players playing on teams as bad as Arizona. And comparing those underlying stats to what Matt Cullen did two years ago in Nashville is just silly.

Top 25 Penguins under 25(last anyways, still waiting for their this years list)http://www.pensburgh.com/...ook-back-at-the-2015-list
Who's yours?
1-Dumoulin
2-Murray
3-Maatta
4-Sprong/ Shultz/ Pouliot
5-Wilson
6-Sheary
7-Rust
8-Guentzle
9-Sundqvist
10-Blueger
11-Kunhackle
12-Jarry
13-Simon
14-Bengsston
15-Prow
16-Gustavson
17- Hall
18-Jones
19-Maguire
20-Bjorkvist
21-Percy

And you accused me of trolling? Pot meet kettle.

I still stand by what I said, but he's also not necessary for the Pens; they have Fehr and a promising young player in Sundqvist. I don't even think the Pens need Cullen at this point, so yeah...

I also think that Hero chart is biased. AZ has largely played him in as a 1st or 2nd C and he's clearly not a 1st or 2nd C, so his HERO numbers SHOULD be bad.

The one problem with advanced stats is that they can be taken out of context and that's what's happening now. Paying Vermette $1M to a be a team's 4thC is a Cullen type situation. How many 4th line centers can you pay $1M and expect 30+ points?

Again, the Pens have a better player in Fehr, so they don't need him.
- Rinosaur

Vermette had 16 5v5 points last year 12 of which were primary points. Please explain how you could expect 30+ points from him in a 4C role.

I think Daily and Schultz are also products of a more conducive system to fit their abilities. I haven't watched vemette play in a while. Or, atleast haven't paid attention. Can he still skate well?
- cranktheradio

He's an average skater.

Vermette had 16 5v5 points last year 12 of which were primary points. Please explain how you could expect 30+ points from him in a 4C role.
- Feds91Stammer

Again, you're comparing advanced stats of a player who's been placed in a role WAY above his pay-grade. If you took Boyle on your team and put him up as a 1st line center with average wingers you'd see his metrics drop off significantly.

He put up 38 points last year where he shouldn't. It's not far-fetched to think he could put up 30+ points in a 3rd/4th line role if used properly. The fact he's been fairly consistent throughout his career in point-production should be enough to give him the benefit of the doubt.

.5 pts per game last year
.46 pts per game the season before
.54 pts per game in the 13/14 season
.43 pts per game the 12/13

He's been pretty consistent in what to expect. In a more protected role with proper usage and lesser competition he should be able to maintain just under what he's producing now, maybe closer to 30 points with less minutes.

And... AGAIN, for probably around $1M/$1.5M he's perfect for a team on a budget. He will deliver more than what an average 4th line center would give you, but for the same price. This isn't rocket-science.

Top 25 Penguins under 25(last anyways, still waiting for their this years list)http://www.pensburgh.com/...ook-back-at-the-2015-list
Who's yours?
1-Dumoulin
2-Murray
3-Maatta
4-Sprong/ Shultz/ Pouliot
5-Wilson
6-Sheary
7-Rust
8-Guentzle
9-Sundqvist
10-Blueger
11-Kunhackle
12-Jarry
13-Simon
14-Bengsston
15-Prow
16-Gustavson
17- Hall
18-Jones
19-Maguire
20-Bjorkvist
21-Percy
- Dcoms

Is this off of potential or currently best? Because if currently best Pouliot, Sprong, and Blueger are all too damn high.

Vermette > Sundqvist and it's not even close, at least if the goal is to have four dangerous lines. The guy put up 17 goals last year on an awful team. If Cullen's not coming back, Vermette would be a smart pickup on the cheap.

This time last year the analytical community was shouting from the rooftops that Trevor Daley sucked because of his underlying stats.

And finally, underlying stats are utterly meaningless when you're talking about players playing on teams as bad as Arizona. And comparing those underlying stats to what Matt Cullen did two years ago in Nashville is just silly.
- hardnosed

But Fehr > Vermette and it's not even close. I'd rather have Fehr, who we're already paying play 4C and flank him with two wingers making 600-700k than pay Vermette another mil.

But Fehr > Vermette and it's not even close. I'd rather have Fehr, who we're already paying play 4C and flank him with two wingers making 600-700k than pay Vermette another mil.
- Victoro311

I'd say they're about equal. I just prefer Fehr on the wing.

Hero chart, Malkin jock sniffing. Great stuff just really great stuff.